As the end of the gargantuan research funding programme, “Horizon 2020” comes into view, we talk to Mr. Martin Pigeon from the Corporate Europe Observatory about the problems the programme has presented since its introduction in 2014, and how its successor, “FP9” might become a “giant battle for subsidies”. This podcast forms part of a series, produced and disseminated by ESNA Media, on the subject of higher education and science policy. Produced and edited by Tino Brömme and Ewan Consterdine Music by Zende Music ESNA European Higher Education News, Berlin www.esna.tv