Parshat Korach, Numbers 16 A “Talit that is wholly blue” (טלית שכולה תכלת); arguably the first fashion statement, has entered popular Jewish and Israeli folklore and culture. We use this popular account of the Korach rebellion to continue our exploration of the Bible’s rejection of class privilege, pride, entitlement, and the corruption that they invite and a democratized vision for Judaism and Israel. Sefaria Source Sheet: www.sefaria.org/sheets/328788 Transcript: Geoffrey Stern So this is our first fashion edition of Madlik. And we are talking about, a story that probably emerged because of two texts sitting next to each other in the Bible. Last week's parsha/portion ends with a law about wearing a four cornered garment with tzitzit; with these little tassel strings that those of you who have seen ultra-Orthodox Jews walking around, and it's sticking out so well can see it because it is an antidote to following one's eyes. It's so that "lo taturu acharae levavchem... that you do not taturu. If the word taturu sounds a little bit like touring or tourist, that's because it's kind of connected to the story before it, which was the spies that we discussed last week, who did make the mistake of following their eyes and not their vision. But this week, on the other side of that obligation to wear the fringes ..... one of those fringes by the way was to be made of "techelet" which is a royal blue dye that we'll get into. But right after that in the Torah, the namesake of this Portion, which is Korah, rebels against Moses and he literally leads a rebellion against Moses. And basically in the Torah text itself. It says that he says you have gone too far. For all the community are holy... all of them. "Rav Lachem" too much for you. "Ki Kol HaEdah, Kulo Kedoshim" Lum kudos him. He makes what seems to be a very democratic argument that says why do we have, when it comes to spirituality when it comes to spiritual leadership.... Why should we have leaders? Are we not all holy? Is not every individual endowed with a spirit of God? But the Midrash Tanhuma spins from this, forgive the pun, a wonderful story. And what it says actually happened was that Korach was inspired by the four cornered garment with that one little thread of blue hanging down. And he said, you know, if you have a garment that is "Kulo Techelet" . That is all made of this beautiful royal blue dye, does it still need fringes to make it kosher, acceptable? And of course, the argument that he was making was that since every Jew is holy, the fabric of the Jewish people is one that is "Kulo Techelet" ... we are all royalty. We are all royal blue. So Moses and Aaron, why are you taking the mantle of leadership? And before I just ask you, Rabbi Adam, what your initial thoughts to this story are, I should mention that the story some stories in the in the Midrash are buried and forgotten. And some have entered the vernacular, have entered folklore that is widely known. And in modern day Hebrew, if you say about somebody that he is "kulo Techelet" or he's a "talit she'Kulo Techelet" , that he is a talit that is all blue. Basically what you're saying about him is that he is holier than thou, that he considers himself holier than thou. So this kind of story has lasted the test of time. What does this story mean to you? And why Rabbi? Do you feel that it has become part of the vernacular? Adam Mintz So I mean, I think just to answer your second question, first, it's become part of the vernacular. Because the themes of this story are so familiar and so popular. The idea that "Beged she'kulo Techelit" that you know that you're holier than Thou, that's a criticism is something that's so familiar, people have grabbed on to so I think that the idea here is the following Rabbi Soloveitchik, Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik, who was the rabbi in Boston and the head of the Yeshiva University for over 50 years. He always explained the following. He said, what was the argument? a garment that's completely blue? Why does it need Techelet. the second half of that midrash says, What about a room that is full filled with Jewish books? Does it need a mezuzah? Also the same idea "Bayit Maley Sepharim", does it need s mezuza? Common sense. The answer is Ironically, that yes, it needs in mezuza. And yes, a beged shekulo techelet requires tzitzit, even techelet tzitzit. And that is that not everything in life is common sense. Makes sense all the time. And therefore, Korach comes and he rebels against Moshe. And he says it's not fair. Everybody's holy. Why Moses have you taken the mantle of leadership? The answer is it's not fair says Rabbi Soloveichik. It's not logical. But God wanted a leader of the Jewish people. And therefore, what Rabbi Soloveichik calls this story is the Common Sense Rebellion? And the answer is that not everything is common sense. Geoffrey Stern I think that's a fascinating interpretation. And I love the fact that you bought in the other part of the Midrash, which talks about the holy books. And I think what I'd like to explore is that although it seems that Korach is a popularlist and wants to democratize our wonderful religion. The truth is that if you dig down into the story, this was an intertribal discussion, because he wasn't saying that all Jews, all humanity should be able to have access. He literally and this is the fascinating part of the story. He didn't make a hypothetical argument when it came to the talit like he did with the books, he literally went to a tailor. And he had fashioned hundreds of these blue garments, put them on, and they made a statement. But I think it's the first instance of someone who was feigning themselves as a populist, using popularist language, but was actually very elitist. He was arguing that why amongst the tribe of Levi, Aaron and Moses, are you claiming the mantle of leadership, we all have the same exclusive privilege. And we all of us Levis, should be in a power of leadership. So I think, in addition to the common sense argument that he was making, he actually was more couching his argument in common sense. But he actually had a very ulterior motive. And the other thing that I love about bringing in the books of the library, is, you know, when we dance on Simchat Torah, we raise the Torah. And sometimes if you don't have a Torah, you raise a book. And if you don't have a book, you raise a child. And I think the sometimes when you make an argument, the fallacy is embedded in the argument. And in this case, I think the common sense argument is that every Jew every "Pintela Yid" if you will, has holiness. But he was taking advantage of that. And I think, really, what I'd love to explore is the whole concept of Techelit itself, which is actually very expensive, and is literally Royal Blue. It was something that only people with stature and prestige and power could wear. And in a sense, God's commandment of having that one little strand of Royal blue. And worn by every Jew was actually a message that I think, went totally contrary to the intent of Korach if not to, at least the way he packaged it. Adam Mintz You find it fascinating that it's royal blue, that it was blue that was special for royalty, and the Korach claimed that that was allowed to be used by everybody. And shouldn't we have certain things that are only allowed to be used by royalty, by special people? I mean, that's an interesting question, Geoffrey, as it relates to today, because the question today is, is there still place for the British royalty? Geoffrey Stern I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask Michael to speak in a second. But before I do, I just like to address that point. The point that I was trying to make was that, in the big scheme of things, there was not going to be a priestly caste. And that when God says to the Jewish people, that you should be a "mamlechet Coahinim ve'goy Kadosh", you should be a kingdom of priests. He was literally saying every Jew as white and dowdy and simple as they are, deserves that little thread of royalty. And I think that Korach was trying to, hijack that message. But he wasn't earnest. And I think the reason in my mind in my interpretation that Korach was [considered] a sinner was not because he made the argument, you can call it from common sense, or the argument that all of Israel has a piece in the Torah was that he wasn't being earnest, and that the real lesson of that little thread of blue of roayl blue on every Jew, is that we're all we're all priests. But Michael, I'm interested in hearing what you have to say. Michael Posnik I just have a question was rebelling against the God? Or was he rebelling against a political situation? Adam Mintz Well, that's such a good question. Maybe it's the same thing. Michael Posnik If it's the same thing, then he shouldn't have been punished. Adam Mintz Why rebelling against God is bad and rebelling against the political situation that God creates is also bad. Michael Posnik God is running. Forgive me, but God is running the political situation. God is in charge of the political side. Adam Mintz If Korach is rebelling against God's political situation, then Korach is sinning. Michael Posnik He seems to be rebelling against a political situation like we have currently against our king in Israel. Adam Mintz Except the king of Israel now has not been appointed by God. Michael Posnik Well, you have to ask him about that. I'm going to bow out and listen. Geoffrey Stern Well, my sense is that he was rebelling against Moses, and he was using arguments from the Torah that God gave. And so in a sense, he was like saying to Moses, who we all know was the most humble man. But he was saying to him, why Moses, did you take this power for yourself? When the Torah that God gave us says that we can have a kosher garment if it only has one little thread of techelet? And here I am. I'm completely techelet. So I personally would not take from this a mandate against rebellion. Rebellion can be done in in a proper sense. I think a "machloket l'shem Shamayim" an argument that is for the sake of good and heaven is acceptable? I think there are times where, Man, certainly Abraham showed a healthy ability to argue with God. I come back to the fact that this guy Korach was massaging the truth. He was using slogans. He was making himself to look like a popularizer. and he was trying to usurp. And I think to address your point, Michael, he gave a bad name to people who really want to rebel for the right intention. I don't think you can make a case against the Torah and against Rabbinics that they tried to dampen, differences of opinion and argumentation. And I don't think that's the takeaway from this story. But in any case, I do want to come back to this sense of the techelet, which in my mind, is kind of a little bit at the crux of these stories, both stories, the stories of the spies that was laid before it and the one afterwards. And Techelet if you want ... the Pantone color of the Torah, it would be Techelet..... it would be this amazing royal blue. It's the brand identity. And you know, I'm jumping ahead of myself in time and in commentary. But it's no big surprise that when they were heading to the first Zionist convention, somebody said we need a flag. And the flag that they came up with, by their own admission, was modeled after the simple talit, white background with a stripe or two of blue. And again, I think that this concept of the marriage between the white and the blue, between the simple and the pure, and that touch of royalty that we all share, to me is the essence of the argument against actually against Korach and co acts argument that he was a blue blood that he was part of he should have been in the ruling party test as well. That's that's kind of my takeaway. But, but i want to i, and I think maybe we can open that up for a little bit of discussion. It is amazing rabbi, that getting back to what I said earlier about the fact that this story, and this color has gone into the vernacular, that the blue of the tallied the blue of techelet it ended up into the national flag, and that this comment and this conjuring up this image of the story went into the national mindset. it's a really beautiful, I think, commentary on what the rebirth of the Jewish state and the Jewish people was that we kind of rediscovered ourselves, that we want to rule ourselves but what we want to rule democratically, we want to take the Torah, and we want it to belong to everybody. And obviously, the early Zionits were socialists, so it fell into that. What is your you, Michael, you rabbi, anyone in the in the crowd? What is your feeling about the popularization of the concept techelet? Adam Mintz I love your image of the techelet. Everybody has a little piece of trechelt. That you think that your blue blood, but the truth is that we're all Blue Bloods. And I think that's an important notion, being God's people make us blue blood a little bit. And you notice, today, some people have gone back to the techelet if you look at their talit, if you look on the strings, the fringes, there are eight strings on the fringes. The techelet is only one of eight. And I think Geoffrey, that's a powerful idea. The idea is that there's just a little bit of techelet in everybody. It's not completely techelet. People who think that they're completely techelet are going to get themselves in trouble. Geoffrey Stern I agree. And I think now we're literally on the same page in terms of what the lesson that Korach was trying to hijack, and he gave a bad name, too. But I think what you said about the reemergence of techelet today is a wonderful segue into the next wonderful story that relates to the history of the techelet. Well, first of all where does techelet comr from? it comes from a mollusk it comes from a shellfish, which in itself is amazing. You know, I once heard the reason that we have honey on Rosh Hashanah is because honey comes from a bee who's not kosher. And the idea is, as Shlomo Carlebach used to say, "You never know", "you never know where holiness can come from". So he had this beautiful blue, that sanctifies us all comes from a sea urchin, so to speak, that's number one. But number two, it mysteriously was hidden. Or maybe this is the first case of a species that that died, but in any case, the rabbi's of the Talmud said that we no longer have this blue techelet and that's why for so many 1000s of years, Jews have only had white fringes and you make reference to some modern Jews who believe they have rediscovered thetech elet and are using it again. And I think that's an amazing ecological story. It's it's an amazing story about what actually happened what was behind this disappearance of the mollusk. Adam Mintz Yeah, now that that's something, Geoffrey that we'll never know the answer to. But that's such an interesting question. Why did the mollusk disappear? Why was it important that for 2000 years, nobody found techelet? Then all of a sudden with the new State of Israel and with new technology, we all found techelet... I wonder about that. Michael, do have any thoughts about that? Michael Posnik I see Korach as the mollusk ..... he himself may have not have been kosher, but he was on to something very big. Adam Mintz That's a great littl D'var torah. Geoffrey Stern Michael, after all, I've said about Korach trying to usurp the thing you still like Korach? You're still on his side. Michael Posnik No, I don't take sides anymore.... I'm too old. But I do appreciate the back and forth. I just think that it's a mixing of worlds in a way. and that was the one I want to ask you, gentlemen, the response of Moses and Aaron to Korach's, rebellion. What do they do? What is their response? Adam Mintz Yeah, good question. It's hard to know, what is their response? They kind of take a response from God. And God says to stand up to them, and to prove that Moses and Aaron are the chosen one. But Michael, actually, your question is better than my answer. Cause you want to know what Moses and Aaron were really thinking. Michael Posnik I work in the theater. So I always wanted to know, what was the motivation? What was the motiviation behind falling on their faces? Adam Mintz Yeah. And I wonder, maybe Moses and Aaron were intimidated. Michael Posnik Maybe? Geoffrey Stern Well, certainly, if they are what we say they were, which is very humble, it's very hard to stick up for yourself. And, you know, that was a little bit of our discussion last week about getting guts. But I would like to suggest my own theory about how to techelet came to disappear. And I just came across this, this concept when I was young, and after I read the book on Masada. By Yigal Yadin, I read the book on the Bar Kokhba revolt. And this archaeologist slash general, slash Zionist statesman was first and foremost an archaeologist. And he found in a cave in the Judean Desert, a ball of wool that was dyed blue. And of course, his first response was, this is amazing that ....as tough as it was for the zealots. They were keeping the commandments and honoring this wonderful commandment. But being a scientist and being an archaeologist, he sent it to the Dexter Chemical Corporation of New York, and they did some testing and lo and behold, they found out that it was fake techelet... it was Indigo. And this General in a footnote, quotes the Talmud as saying that fake techelet fake die, [was the result of a ] a big black market for it. There was a lot of corruption involved. And he recounts two parts of the Talmud, one that talks about the tests that have to be made because this fake die was so far reaching and available. And the other one was in the section of the Torah, where it talks about, Damn you, if you change the scales, and you cheat people in the list of the great grievances of cheating people. One of them is to provide faketechelet. So my my pet theory is and of course, Yadin says clearly, the zealots thought they had real techelet. So we are, from an archaeological point of view, looking back 1000s of years and finding how how widespread the corruption that was created by and remember, this is roayl blue, it's expensive. Here is a mitzvah not like a piece orf challah, not like a glass of wine, but you need to use something that is roayl and we're giving a little bit of that royalty to every Jew. But guess what, we there's money, there's corruption. And my pet theory, and I have no basis for it was that due to the black market, the rabbis said, we've got to cut the legs out under this, and there is no more techelet. And they hid the techelet. meaning to say that if they had to weigh between putting the onus of purchasing this expensive die, and snuffing out a corrupt market, that was parleying in holy goods. If they had to put that on one side and cancel one of the 613 commandments, they chose to cancel the commandment. And so in fact, techelet was really extinct. And those who have quote unquote, refound it today are in good order, because maybe we we won't have another corrupt market. But that's my pet theory. And it goes so well, I think to the whole flow of the discussion, which is that the whole message of techelet is that it should be accessible to every Jew, that every Jew has that holy thread. And the second that message got tarnished and corrupted. The rabbi's threw it out. What do you think of that? Adam Mintz I love that idea. I think that's great. And I think that today, the fact that they found techelet and so to speak the rabbi's or God is giving us a second chance, a chance to all have a piece of that techelet, that royal blue is really a beautiful end to your whole theory. Geoffrey Stern Well, thank you, I have to say, personally, I went to what is called a Mussar Yeshiva, it's a whole long story. Maybe we'll deal with it another time. But it was part of a movement started around the same time as the Hasidic movement maybe a few years later, that stress the ethics. And when you came to my yeshiva, it was called Beer Yaakov and the head of it was someone called Rabbi Shlomo Wolbe. If you came into the Yeshiva, and you tucked your tsitsit into your pocket, which was kind of the nice compromise between making sure that your tsitsit could be seen. But on the other hand, you wanted to dress like a Westerner, and you didn't want to stick out too much. If you came to the Yeshiva, and you had those tzitzit in your pocket, and all of a sudden you decided to take them out. Rabbi Wolbe would call you over. And he would say, what happened to you, you became a Tzadik all of a sudden, now you can walk around with you, tzitzit out? And he really in that comment, really touched upon this holier than thou aspect of keeping religion. There's this kind of dialectic, that here, if we keep the laws of God, how do we stop ourselves flaunting it, wearing it on our sleeves, or in this case on the threads of taslit? And so I think really it that also kind of is enamoring to me, the sense of pride, but also humility, that is, is is imbued with this idea of to techelet Adam Mintz Well, the idea, Geoffrey, that the very thing that can make us arrogant, is also the thing that makes us humble is a very powerful idea. Geoffrey Stern Yup, always, always two sides to the coin. Right? Adam Mintz Right. So that the tzitit that go in your pocket, and remind you of God and therefore humble you there, they're flip side of tzitzit that we're flying around, Rabbi Wolbe didn;t like. Geoffrey Stern Yeah, I think to sum it all up to me, as I go through the whole arc of the five books of Moses, starting with the clear rejection of the firstborn and primogeniture of every one of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's kids, the rejection of the firstborn of Egypt and the priestly caste, this amazing statement that we are all a kingdom of priests. I think that this fits right into it and one of the most powerful messages to me of the Torah is it's an argument against entitlement against stratification and the monopolization of the holy and this radical, radical democratization and all Israel has a a Chelek (portion) in the Torah. And I think that's the most powerful message. And it's one that also is in the arc of Jewish history. I feel today we are democratizing study of Torah, who can study where you can study? I think in Israel, it has the potential for democratizing Judaism if we could only get the religion out of the government. That's that's the vision I find that to techelet screams to me. Adam Mintz Beautiful. I love it. Thank you so much. Geoffrey Stern Well, thank you and Shabbat shalom to everyone. Adam Mintz thank you so much. I'm looking forward to next week. Geoffrey Stern You got it. Let's all have that little Petil techelet, that little string of blue that lets us know that we have access to the holy and the divine as much as anyone else. Shabbat Shalom.
Parshat Korach, Numbers 16 A “Talit that is wholly blue” (טלית שכולה תכלת); arguably the first fashion statement, has entered popular Jewish and Israeli folklore and culture. We use this popular account of the Korach rebellion to continue our exploration of the Bible’s rejection of class privilege, pride, entitlement, and the corruption that they invite and a democratized vision for Judaism and Israel.
Sefaria Source Sheet: www.sefaria.org/sheets/328788
Transcript:
Geoffrey Stern
So this is our first fashion edition of Madlik. And we are talking about, a story that probably emerged because of two texts sitting next to each other in the Bible. Last week's parsha/portion ends with a law about wearing a four cornered garment with tzitzit; with these little tassel strings that those of you who have seen ultra-Orthodox Jews walking around, and it's sticking out so well can see it because it is an antidote to following one's eyes. It's so that "lo taturu acharae levavchem... that you do not taturu. If the word taturu sounds a little bit like touring or tourist, that's because it's kind of connected to the story before it, which was the spies that we discussed last week, who did make the mistake of following their eyes and not their vision. But this week, on the other side of that obligation to wear the fringes ..... one of those fringes by the way was to be made of "techelet" which is a royal blue dye that we'll get into. But right after that in the Torah, the namesake of this Portion, which is Korah, rebels against Moses and he literally leads a rebellion against Moses. And basically in the Torah text itself. It says that he says you have gone too far. For all the community are holy... all of them. "Rav Lachem" too much for you. "Ki Kol HaEdah, Kulo Kedoshim" Lum kudos him. He makes what seems to be a very democratic argument that says why do we have, when it comes to spirituality when it comes to spiritual leadership.... Why should we have leaders? Are we not all holy? Is not every individual endowed with a spirit of God? But the Midrash Tanhuma spins from this, forgive the pun, a wonderful story. And what it says actually happened was that Korach was inspired by the four cornered garment with that one little thread of blue hanging down. And he said, you know, if you have a garment that is "Kulo Techelet" . That is all made of this beautiful royal blue dye, does it still need fringes to make it kosher, acceptable? And of course, the argument that he was making was that since every Jew is holy, the fabric of the Jewish people is one that is "Kulo Techelet" ... we are all royalty. We are all royal blue. So Moses and Aaron, why are you taking the mantle of leadership? And before I just ask you, Rabbi Adam, what your initial thoughts to this story are, I should mention that the story some stories in the in the Midrash are buried and forgotten. And some have entered the vernacular, have entered folklore that is widely known. And in modern day Hebrew, if you say about somebody that he is "kulo Techelet" or he's a "talit she'Kulo Techelet" , that he is a talit that is all blue. Basically what you're saying about him is that he is holier than thou, that he considers himself holier than thou. So this kind of story has lasted the test of time. What does this story mean to you? And why Rabbi? Do you feel that it has become part of the vernacular?
Adam Mintz
So I mean, I think just to answer your second question, first, it's become part of the vernacular. Because the themes of this story are so familiar and so popular. The idea that "Beged she'kulo Techelit" that you know that you're holier than Thou, that's a criticism is something that's so familiar, people have grabbed on to so I think that the idea here is the following Rabbi Soloveitchik, Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik, who was the rabbi in Boston and the head of the Yeshiva University for over 50 years. He always explained the following. He said, what was the argument? a garment that's completely blue? Why does it need Techelet. the second half of that midrash says, What about a room that is full filled with Jewish books? Does it need a mezuzah? Also the same idea "Bayit Maley Sepharim", does it need s mezuza? Common sense. The answer is Ironically, that yes, it needs in mezuza. And yes, a beged shekulo techelet requires tzitzit, even techelet tzitzit. And that is that not everything in life is common sense. Makes sense all the time. And therefore, Korach comes and he rebels against Moshe. And he says it's not fair. Everybody's holy. Why Moses have you taken the mantle of leadership? The answer is it's not fair says Rabbi Soloveichik. It's not logical. But God wanted a leader of the Jewish people. And therefore, what Rabbi Soloveichik calls this story is the Common Sense Rebellion? And the answer is that not everything is common sense.
Geoffrey Stern
I think that's a fascinating interpretation. And I love the fact that you bought in the other part of the Midrash, which talks about the holy books. And I think what I'd like to explore is that although it seems that Korach is a popularlist and wants to democratize our wonderful religion. The truth is that if you dig down into the story, this was an intertribal discussion, because he wasn't saying that all Jews, all humanity should be able to have access. He literally and this is the fascinating part of the story. He didn't make a hypothetical argument when it came to the talit like he did with the books, he literally went to a tailor. And he had fashioned hundreds of these blue garments, put them on, and they made a statement. But I think it's the first instance of someone who was feigning themselves as a populist, using popularist language, but was actually very elitist. He was arguing that why amongst the tribe of Levi, Aaron and Moses, are you claiming the mantle of leadership, we all have the same exclusive privilege. And we all of us Levis, should be in a power of leadership. So I think, in addition to the common sense argument that he was making, he actually was more couching his argument in common sense. But he actually had a very ulterior motive. And the other thing that I love about bringing in the books of the library, is, you know, when we dance on Simchat Torah, we raise the Torah. And sometimes if you don't have a Torah, you raise a book. And if you don't have a book, you raise a child. And I think the sometimes when you make an argument, the fallacy is embedded in the argument. And in this case, I think the common sense argument is that every Jew every "Pintela Yid" if you will, has holiness. But he was taking advantage of that. And I think, really, what I'd love to explore is the whole concept of Techelit itself, which is actually very expensive, and is literally Royal Blue. It was something that only people with stature and prestige and power could wear. And in a sense, God's commandment of having that one little strand of Royal blue. And worn by every Jew was actually a message that I think, went totally contrary to the intent of Korach if not to, at least the way he packaged it.
Adam Mintz
You find it fascinating that it's royal blue, that it was blue that was special for royalty, and the Korach claimed that that was allowed to be used by everybody. And shouldn't we have certain things that are only allowed to be used by royalty, by special people? I mean, that's an interesting question, Geoffrey, as it relates to today, because the question today is, is there still place for the British royalty?
Geoffrey Stern
I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask Michael to speak in a second. But before I do, I just like to address that point. The point that I was trying to make was that, in the big scheme of things, there was not going to be a priestly caste. And that when God says to the Jewish people, that you should be a "mamlechet Coahinim ve'goy Kadosh", you should be a kingdom of priests. He was literally saying every Jew as white and dowdy and simple as they are, deserves that little thread of royalty. And I think that Korach was trying to, hijack that message. But he wasn't earnest. And I think the reason in my mind in my interpretation that Korach was [considered] a sinner was not because he made the argument, you can call it from common sense, or the argument that all of Israel has a piece in the Torah was that he wasn't being earnest, and that the real lesson of that little thread of blue of roayl blue on every Jew, is that we're all we're all priests. But Michael, I'm interested in hearing what you have to say.
Michael Posnik
I just have a question was rebelling against the God? Or was he rebelling against a political situation?
Adam Mintz
Well, that's such a good question. Maybe it's the same thing.
Michael Posnik
If it's the same thing, then he shouldn't have been punished.
Adam Mintz
Why rebelling against God is bad and rebelling against the political situation that God creates is also bad.
Michael Posnik
God is running. Forgive me, but God is running the political situation. God is in charge of the political side.
Adam Mintz
If Korach is rebelling against God's political situation, then Korach is sinning.
Michael Posnik
He seems to be rebelling against a political situation like we have currently against our king in Israel.
Adam Mintz
Except the king of Israel now has not been appointed by God.
Michael Posnik
Well, you have to ask him about that. I'm going to bow out and listen.
Geoffrey Stern
Well, my sense is that he was rebelling against Moses, and he was using arguments from the Torah that God gave. And so in a sense, he was like saying to Moses, who we all know was the most humble man. But he was saying to him, why Moses, did you take this power for yourself? When the Torah that God gave us says that we can have a kosher garment if it only has one little thread of techelet? And here I am. I'm completely techelet. So I personally would not take from this a mandate against rebellion. Rebellion can be done in in a proper sense. I think a "machloket l'shem Shamayim" an argument that is for the sake of good and heaven is acceptable? I think there are times where, Man, certainly Abraham showed a healthy ability to argue with God. I come back to the fact that this guy Korach was massaging the truth. He was using slogans. He was making himself to look like a popularizer. and he was trying to usurp. And I think to address your point, Michael, he gave a bad name to people who really want to rebel for the right intention. I don't think you can make a case against the Torah and against Rabbinics that they tried to dampen, differences of opinion and argumentation. And I don't think that's the takeaway from this story. But in any case, I do want to come back to this sense of the techelet, which in my mind, is kind of a little bit at the crux of these stories, both stories, the stories of the spies that was laid before it and the one afterwards. And Techelet if you want ... the Pantone color of the Torah, it would be Techelet..... it would be this amazing royal blue. It's the brand identity. And you know, I'm jumping ahead of myself in time and in commentary. But it's no big surprise that when they were heading to the first Zionist convention, somebody said we need a flag. And the flag that they came up with, by their own admission, was modeled after the simple talit, white background with a stripe or two of blue. And again, I think that this concept of the marriage between the white and the blue, between the simple and the pure, and that touch of royalty that we all share, to me is the essence of the argument against actually against Korach and co acts argument that he was a blue blood that he was part of he should have been in the ruling party test as well. That's that's kind of my takeaway. But, but i want to i, and I think maybe we can open that up for a little bit of discussion. It is amazing rabbi, that getting back to what I said earlier about the fact that this story, and this color has gone into the vernacular, that the blue of the tallied the blue of techelet it ended up into the national flag, and that this comment and this conjuring up this image of the story went into the national mindset. it's a really beautiful, I think, commentary on what the rebirth of the Jewish state and the Jewish people was that we kind of rediscovered ourselves, that we want to rule ourselves but what we want to rule democratically, we want to take the Torah, and we want it to belong to everybody. And obviously, the early Zionits were socialists, so it fell into that. What is your you, Michael, you rabbi, anyone in the in the crowd? What is your feeling about the popularization of the concept techelet?
Adam Mintz
I love your image of the techelet. Everybody has a little piece of trechelt. That you think that your blue blood, but the truth is that we're all Blue Bloods. And I think that's an important notion, being God's people make us blue blood a little bit. And you notice, today, some people have gone back to the techelet if you look at their talit, if you look on the strings, the fringes, there are eight strings on the fringes. The techelet is only one of eight. And I think Geoffrey, that's a powerful idea. The idea is that there's just a little bit of techelet in everybody. It's not completely techelet. People who think that they're completely techelet are going to get themselves in trouble.
Geoffrey Stern
I agree. And I think now we're literally on the same page in terms of what the lesson that Korach was trying to hijack, and he gave a bad name, too. But I think what you said about the reemergence of techelet today is a wonderful segue into the next wonderful story that relates to the history of the techelet. Well, first of all where does techelet comr from? it comes from a mollusk it comes from a shellfish, which in itself is amazing. You know, I once heard the reason that we have honey on Rosh Hashanah is because honey comes from a bee who's not kosher. And the idea is, as Shlomo Carlebach used to say, "You never know", "you never know where holiness can come from". So he had this beautiful blue, that sanctifies us all comes from a sea urchin, so to speak, that's number one. But number two, it mysteriously was hidden. Or maybe this is the first case of a species that that died, but in any case, the rabbi's of the Talmud said that we no longer have this blue techelet and that's why for so many 1000s of years, Jews have only had white fringes and you make reference to some modern Jews who believe they have rediscovered thetech elet and are using it again. And I think that's an amazing ecological story. It's it's an amazing story about what actually happened what was behind this disappearance of the mollusk.
Adam Mintz
Yeah, now that that's something, Geoffrey that we'll never know the answer to. But that's such an interesting question. Why did the mollusk disappear? Why was it important that for 2000 years, nobody found techelet? Then all of a sudden with the new State of Israel and with new technology, we all found techelet... I wonder about that. Michael, do have any thoughts about that?
Michael Posnik
I see Korach as the mollusk ..... he himself may have not have been kosher, but he was on to something very big.
Adam Mintz
That's a great littl D'var torah.
Geoffrey Stern
Michael, after all, I've said about Korach trying to usurp the thing you still like Korach? You're still on his side.
Michael Posnik
No, I don't take sides anymore.... I'm too old. But I do appreciate the back and forth. I just think that it's a mixing of worlds in a way. and that was the one I want to ask you, gentlemen, the response of Moses and Aaron to Korach's, rebellion. What do they do? What is their response?
Adam Mintz
Yeah, good question. It's hard to know, what is their response? They kind of take a response from God. And God says to stand up to them, and to prove that Moses and Aaron are the chosen one. But Michael, actually, your question is better than my answer. Cause you want to know what Moses and Aaron were really thinking.
Michael Posnik
I work in the theater. So I always wanted to know, what was the motivation? What was the motiviation behind falling on their faces?
Adam Mintz
Yeah. And I wonder, maybe Moses and Aaron were intimidated.
Michael Posnik
Maybe?
Geoffrey Stern
Well, certainly, if they are what we say they were, which is very humble, it's very hard to stick up for yourself. And, you know, that was a little bit of our discussion last week about getting guts. But I would like to suggest my own theory about how to techelet came to disappear. And I just came across this, this concept when I was young, and after I read the book on Masada. By Yigal Yadin, I read the book on the Bar Kokhba revolt. And this archaeologist slash general, slash Zionist statesman was first and foremost an archaeologist. And he found in a cave in the Judean Desert, a ball of wool that was dyed blue. And of course, his first response was, this is amazing that ....as tough as it was for the zealots. They were keeping the commandments and honoring this wonderful commandment. But being a scientist and being an archaeologist, he sent it to the Dexter Chemical Corporation of New York, and they did some testing and lo and behold, they found out that it was fake techelet... it was Indigo. And this General in a footnote, quotes the Talmud as saying that fake techelet fake die, [was the result of a ] a big black market for it. There was a lot of corruption involved. And he recounts two parts of the Talmud, one that talks about the tests that have to be made because this fake die was so far reaching and available. And the other one was in the section of the Torah, where it talks about, Damn you, if you change the scales, and you cheat people in the list of the great grievances of cheating people. One of them is to provide faketechelet. So my my pet theory is and of course, Yadin says clearly, the zealots thought they had real techelet. So we are, from an archaeological point of view, looking back 1000s of years and finding how how widespread the corruption that was created by and remember, this is roayl blue, it's expensive. Here is a mitzvah not like a piece orf challah, not like a glass of wine, but you need to use something that is roayl and we're giving a little bit of that royalty to every Jew. But guess what, we there's money, there's corruption. And my pet theory, and I have no basis for it was that due to the black market, the rabbis said, we've got to cut the legs out under this, and there is no more techelet. And they hid the techelet. meaning to say that if they had to weigh between putting the onus of purchasing this expensive die, and snuffing out a corrupt market, that was parleying in holy goods. If they had to put that on one side and cancel one of the 613 commandments, they chose to cancel the commandment. And so in fact, techelet was really extinct. And those who have quote unquote, refound it today are in good order, because maybe we we won't have another corrupt market. But that's my pet theory. And it goes so well, I think to the whole flow of the discussion, which is that the whole message of techelet is that it should be accessible to every Jew, that every Jew has that holy thread. And the second that message got tarnished and corrupted. The rabbi's threw it out. What do you think of that?
Adam Mintz
I love that idea. I think that's great. And I think that today, the fact that they found techelet and so to speak the rabbi's or God is giving us a second chance, a chance to all have a piece of that techelet, that royal blue is really a beautiful end to your whole theory.
Geoffrey Stern
Well, thank you, I have to say, personally, I went to what is called a Mussar Yeshiva, it's a whole long story. Maybe we'll deal with it another time. But it was part of a movement started around the same time as the Hasidic movement maybe a few years later, that stress the ethics. And when you came to my yeshiva, it was called Beer Yaakov and the head of it was someone called Rabbi Shlomo Wolbe. If you came into the Yeshiva, and you tucked your tsitsit into your pocket, which was kind of the nice compromise between making sure that your tsitsit could be seen. But on the other hand, you wanted to dress like a Westerner, and you didn't want to stick out too much. If you came to the Yeshiva, and you had those tzitzit in your pocket, and all of a sudden you decided to take them out. Rabbi Wolbe would call you over. And he would say, what happened to you, you became a Tzadik all of a sudden, now you can walk around with you, tzitzit out? And he really in that comment, really touched upon this holier than thou aspect of keeping religion. There's this kind of dialectic, that here, if we keep the laws of God, how do we stop ourselves flaunting it, wearing it on our sleeves, or in this case on the threads of taslit? And so I think really it that also kind of is enamoring to me, the sense of pride, but also humility, that is, is is imbued with this idea of to techelet
Adam Mintz
Well, the idea, Geoffrey, that the very thing that can make us arrogant, is also the thing that makes us humble is a very powerful idea.
Geoffrey Stern
Yup, always, always two sides to the coin. Right?
Adam Mintz
Right. So that the tzitit that go in your pocket, and remind you of God and therefore humble you there, they're flip side of tzitzit that we're flying around, Rabbi Wolbe didn;t like.
Geoffrey Stern
Yeah, I think to sum it all up to me, as I go through the whole arc of the five books of Moses, starting with the clear rejection of the firstborn and primogeniture of every one of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's kids, the rejection of the firstborn of Egypt and the priestly caste, this amazing statement that we are all a kingdom of priests. I think that this fits right into it and one of the most powerful messages to me of the Torah is it's an argument against entitlement against stratification and the monopolization of the holy and this radical, radical democratization and all Israel has a a Chelek (portion) in the Torah. And I think that's the most powerful message. And it's one that also is in the arc of Jewish history. I feel today we are democratizing study of Torah, who can study where you can study? I think in Israel, it has the potential for democratizing Judaism if we could only get the religion out of the government. That's that's the vision I find that to techelet screams to me.
Adam Mintz
Beautiful. I love it. Thank you so much.
Geoffrey Stern
Well, thank you and Shabbat shalom to everyone.
Adam Mintz
thank you so much. I'm looking forward to next week.
Geoffrey Stern
You got it. Let's all have that little Petil techelet, that little string of blue that lets us know that we have access to the holy and the divine as much as anyone else. Shabbat Shalom.