Obi Kaufmann, artist, writer, and conservationist, discusses California's ecology, water management, and biodiversity. Kaufmann challenges conventional environmentalism, questioning the language used to describe nature and the paradox of trading nature to save it. He emphasizes the importance of indigenous-led ecological thought and the resilience provided by biodiversity. Kaufmann shares insights from his book "The State of Water" and his upcoming release "The State of Fire: Why California Burns." This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.mindbodyhealthpolitics.org/subscribe